Salary Negotiation for Latinas: How to Ask for More with Pilar Casal

María del Pilar Casal: I was like, canceling an interview because my water broke and I was a month early in the hospital. Like, I 5 a.m. outside the house. I’ll be like, hi, I need to reschedule some. A personal emergency has come up. It’s like I’m actually in labor. I don’t want to sit at the table that does not want me. If the chair’s not pulled out, I’m going to one of the table. I’m building my own table. People treat people badly. I’ll burn that bridge. May the bridges I burn light the way I work. Mom, we no longer work together, but we work together for a very long time. And she was the executive assistant to many people in the C-suite. So that’s one of the most informed, like, minds you can have on your side. And she gave me the best negotiating tip, which was…

Andrea Diaz: Ola. And welcome back to the Latina Leadership Podcast. I’m your host, Andrea Diaz. And in today’s episode, we’re talking with María del Pilar Casal, an American executive who spent 15 years building revenue-driven storytelling at the intersection of media and commerce. Most recently, she led integrated marketing at TelevisaUnivision, overseeing a 400 million brand portfolio, then at 37 stepped away to become a first-time mom and start her own business. We talk about navigating corporate as a Latina, negotiating your worth, and what it means to redefine success on your own terms. So let’s head over to the conversation.

María del Pilar Casal: Hi, I’m María del Pilar Casal. Most people call me Pilar. I am a marketing executive and founder based in New York. For the last 15 years, I’ve really been focused on helping brands through culture, for storytelling and creator partnerships and community led strategy across social, streaming, and live moments. Most recently, I welcomed a new baby, stepped away from the corporate world, and just kind of built my own business and figured out what I want to do next. And so it’s been a really exciting time of changes and self-development and a lot of creativity.

Andrea Diaz: Yeah, I love that. And I look at your background, too. You spent 15 years building an executive career, most recently overseeing a 400 million portfolio at TelevisaUnivision. And then, you know, now at 37, you step away to become a first-time mom and start your own business. So what made you hit pause when everything looks successful on paper?

María del Pilar Casal: Yeah, I mean, I had a career I had toward I’ll Be You for a little while. I had been thinking about what it might be like to take a break. I think, you know, when I came up, in my early 20s, in corporate, social and social media, it was grind, grind, grind. I just did a post on this on LinkedIn. I was like, I came up and, you know, ‘I’ll sleep when I die’ or ‘I’m dead’ kind of hustle culture, which I was obsessed with and helped me achieve a lot of things. But I had definitely reached a point where I was, you know, thinking about, like, what would it be like in a year or two if I just kind of took a break and got some rest, and then I got pregnant. And the pregnancy was really tough. I was super sick. So it kind of like life pushed the break earlier and it was the right time. I had done a really nice stint, and then awesome Univision. Previous had been at L’Oréal, and then I’d come back. So that was an option for like my second time there. And so I did a really good stint. I had done some really good work on some awards, and I was like, I think now the pregnancy is a sign. Like, maybe it’s a time to pause. And ironically, I think the worry of what is it to take a break from corporate and to now go into motherhood and like, what does this mean for my corporate career? I ended up inadvertently really leaning into like, my personal brand development, networking, going through events. And I was like, I’m almost more busy than when I had a job. So it’s been really interesting to still need to learn how to slow down, because I haven’t quite gotten like the down piece. I was like, canceling an interview because my water broke and I was a month early into the hospital like, I 5 a.m. outside the house. I’ll be like, hi, I need to reschedule some. A personal emergency has come up. I’m like, I’m actually in labor. Now.

Andrea Diaz: And I’m glad you describe your transition. And, you know, take us back to the beginning. You know, you’re a Latina from the Bronx, walking into the corporate with no connections, no experience. And what was that like, and how did you find your footing?

María del Pilar Casal: Yeah, it’s a great question. So I think a lot of times we don’t realize that, like, I had phenomenal parents, they were super educated, multiple master’s degrees. You know, I went to like I love the school they went to. I had gone to City College here in New York, I think is a phenomenal school, prepares you very well from the business world. But I didn’t know anyone who had worked in media and who had worked in corporate. Right. My mom was a teacher. That’s a union job. So the way you negotiate, the way you do anything, you have literally lawyers to do that for you. My dad was an entrepreneur. He’s in real estate. He’s in accounting. He makes his own salary. So even things like understanding that you need to negotiate, understanding what? How do you even, like research? What other salaries were, something as silly as, like, just email etiquette. And the way you set that up, that’s very particular. Depending on the business that you’re in. It’s different in each one. Media versus tech versus publishing. And so I didn’t have that until and I kind of had to learn it as I went. So like I said, a terrible job and don’t negotiate. For example, my first offer learned that, never did that again. Then I like, learned and understood. But I think it was at first a little bit intimidating because there definitely is kind of a corporate culture and everything. I remember even, the first three months of, and then the first time I started working because I worked a lot freelance at an agency, but I was much more casual. The first, like, big corporate job I had was my first stint at Univision. And it was on the corporate communications team. So you can imagine it’s very buttoned up. I remember the first three months that I was there, I wore only dresses because I was just like, is it? You know, I was like, kind of like, what’s the business person then? You know, like, my boss is like, hey, you can wear like, pants. And I showed you like, but I was just like, so it’s even the pressure you put on yourself internally. So I learned a lot, but a lot of it has to be self-taught. A lot was learning from mistakes and also just coworkers. I’d be like, here’s this email. Like, okay. And they’d be like, hey, you know, the person you put in the ‘to’ is the person you’re sending the message to. The ‘cc’ is the person you’re making aware of. It’s like little things like that. Yeah. Now that’s why I love AI, because you can quite literally. And now there’s LinkedIn and other things. So you can ask those questions like, hey, how do I send an email appropriately? There’s a ton out there, right? But I think it was a lot of just getting used to it. I got lucky that it was at a company though, full of Latinos, and I was on a team full of Latinas. So overall, how I showed up and my culture and even like how I spoke was very much, I think, accepted and welcomed and celebrated my big personality. But they were just kind of the little details of corporate that I had to learn. So now people reach out for mentorship and stuff and I’m like, do you know how to send an email? I know it sounds silly, but like this is where you put the person, you know, keep it short. Do the most important at the top. Little things like that. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: No. And is like, I can imagine like starting the workforce and you’re like, having discovered those, like, little nuances that you weren’t really well aware of. And I’m glad you put yourself out there to, like, ask those questions is that that’s what happened to me, too, like having to ask those questions. So like not being nervous, like, oh, they’re going to think I’m dumb. Like, no, it’s like you’re having oh my God, that’s me. And it’s something that. Our number one fear. Yeah. It’s like, are they going to think I’m dumb?

María del Pilar Casal: Yeah, I think everyone thinks that, like, you know, it’s a stupid question. And I know you had to let go and stop worrying if anyone’s going to think that you’re dumb or not. Yeah. You know, it’s just like, I didn’t know the details, but I knew the important things that I had been hired for. Right? The strategy behind social media, how to connect with people on Twitter and Facebook where like, that’s what they had hired me for. But I didn’t know how to send emails that were good. I should say I was not in good emails. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: And what what do you what advice would you give for like, you know, someone who’s trying to figure out, you know, stirring up their stage or finally got the first big corporate job? And what advice would you give that you wish you knew back then?

María del Pilar Casal: Well that’s great. I think I would say even before going into it. So I had some internships, but I think it would have been helpful or I know it would have been helpful if I had found a mentor early on. And I know it was tough. I tell people now who are like more of my executive level. You need to, like, be reaching out and you need to offer mentorship because young people, they don’t even know where to start. Yeah, they’re very worried about how they approach people. They’re very shy. They’re worried about looking dumb, not being prepared. Some kids are really outgoing, some fresh. You graduate students are not going to be like, you have to offer your mentorship. If you really kind of want to open the doors of these spaces, especially to our community, you have to be more proactive about it. But, you know, while we, the executive mentoring, get better at reaching out, I think if you’re, you know, you’re coming out of college or you’re pivoting and going into a new corporate role, so if you can get yourself a mentor in your area of expertise, there’s organizations you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. You know, I can help try to find you someone, but get yourself a mentor and gather as much intel as you can for your negotiation of your salary. Yeah. So this can be really tough, because information is very hard to find. I will tell you, one of my pet peeves is when people say that women don’t negotiate because are not confident or that Latinas don’t negotiate because, like, we’re like our culture, like, doesn’t teach us. I’m like, no, we are powerful negotiators. We just don’t have the information. Yeah. So if the salaries aren’t listed anywhere, how do we know where to even start? Right. You can you go to Glassdoor and the ranges are so wide. Yeah. So, if you can it’s really if we’ll say research I’m okay. But the ranges are incredibly wide and titles are different in every company. So have, you know, one of the good things is that now in New York, companies are required to include salaries in the job postings. So what I’ll tell people is that regardless of I know it’s great, I will say some of them give very wide ranges and I think kind of get around it, but at least you have an idea. So even if you aren’t interviewing New York, if you’re in a corporate company that has ever posted jobs in New York, see if you can find those listings. Look at how many years of experience and something close to what you’re going to do, and then you can at least get a sense. And if you have anyone kind of trusted in the business or area, ask them. Of course, LinkedIn, Glassdoor do have general ranges. As well. So but make sure that whatever offer you’re getting, you are negotiating, you’re asking for more. And the number one thing people will tell me when they ask me advice, actually negotiation is what if they pull the offer because I negotiated and I will always say the same thing. Unless you desperately need that job to pay your bills right now, you do not want to go work anywhere that’s going to pull an offer because you ask for a little bit of money. There’s a very red flag, a big red flag. It’s not going to get any better once you’re, so don’t be afraid to, ask for more money, but. So get a mentor. Always negotiate the first offer that you get, and money’s not the only thing. If they don’t have more money, you can ask for vacation time, you can ask for more ability, etc. And I think use the tools that you have. I tell a ton of people with the AI tools, and you kind of have to be careful because of some company policies, but if you do meetings with really, you know, with senior people or people on other teams and they’re saying things you don’t understand, I’m like, write it all down the chat should chatbot throw into perplexity Gemini Claude and be like, what the heck is this? What were they talking about? I used to take I mean, I was literally transcribe some of these meetings I would just be taking, like taking everything I heard, and then I would go back and I would Google things that I didn’t know because a lot of it’s terminology of the industry. So again, I was great at Twitter and Facebook, but I’m in a corporate company. It’s socialist, new for them. I’m like, I don’t know what like EBITDA is. I don’t know, like are like what are these terms. And so I would Google and I would know things. And then when I would run into those people like, oh, you were talking in the meeting about X, Y and Z. And I had a little bit of background information. So even if I ask them more, I kind of do a little intel. Now, some people have AI tools. Ask them a bunch about it. Ask is finding articles related to that thing that they spoke about or whatever synonym of somebody. Oh, you’re talking about, you know, how you’re looking for new revenue, which is an X, y, z. I saw the stream or just did whatever. Trust me, even if you send something that seems like, oh, I’m sharing this and it’s kind of a junior level idea, people will be so excited that you took interest that you’re, like, engaged and involved, even if it’s just a conversation starter. It shows that you’re connected. So one get a mentor to negotiate your offer. Three use the AI tools available and like plug into they whatever’s happening that you don’t understand. So you can learn more. Do not put your proprietary company tools. That is probably like a firable offense. But if people are throwing around terms rights on those sentences, I said, throw it in there and be like, hey, do you know the head of streaming said, X, Y, and Z, what could this possibly mean?

Andrea Diaz: And that’s excellent advice to business. Also little nuggets that I tend to do. Like if I don’t like you know, there’s certain things I don’t understand from conversation, I’ll write it down or I’ll keep in my mental notes and I’m like, I’m going to go search that later. So I have like once I meet them again, I have a reference like, hey, you were talking about that last, last time. And I did you know that interests me a lot and wanted to talk more about this topic. It’s such a great conversation starter, especially if you’re nervous about networking is such a great way to initiate that networking. Like you’re you’re found a common, common ground with them that you can start conversation with.

María del Pilar Casal: 100% on that point, actually, of networking. One of the things, that I think is really helpful too, because of LinkedIn, if you’re going to an event and you look up the speakers, it’s okay to network before the event. Send them a note. Hey, I know you. I saw your speaking on this panel. I’m deeply interested in this topic. I so x y just happens. I’ll be there at the panel, you know, with my notebook, take notes. Hopefully I can say hello. And then when you get there, you already have something to talk about. Hey, I’m the person who sent you that message, on LinkedIn. Love what you said on the panel. I do that during panel. So I’ll take notes and I send links and connection invites during the panel because I’m taking notes on my phone. Yeah. And I’m like, hey, loved your point on. And I’ll put it in quotes like the exact words they said engaging the consumer wherever they are. This, you know, relatable, blah. And I’ll send it out or I do it later when I have a little bit of time, but like, I’ll pull back their panel to them or use like a term they said or verb, and just personalizes it a little bit more. And, you know, you can keep that connection warm, but I’ve networked before, a networking event on LinkedIn because I can I have a lot of experience in the industry, but I still get really like awkward about walking up to someone and just saying, I.

Andrea Diaz: And, you know, I’m thinking I’m thinking about like, you know, has pay equity been like a more centered about career and like, you know, how did you learn to negotiate for yourself? And what do you wish you known about money earlier? I know we talked about it, but I’m kind of more interested in learning learning more about your perspective on it.

María del Pilar Casal: Yeah. So I think that’s evolved and changed over time because I also think the like society and the industry has changed. I, think for Latinas, there’s two things that we’re kind of facing. One is the fact that we need to be negotiating and have or that we need to be going to go you with the best information, which means that it’s great to know what each other’s making. But like, if Latinas are the most underpaid, we’re not the best then, because we probably all have undervalued numbers. Yeah. You have to, like, try to get those numbers from the white guys in the room, like, yeah, what are you making? You know, so people many times will say like, oh, do you share your salary? I’m like, it depends on the situation because frankly, my salary is not helpful. Yeah. We need to get the, you know, the men, but particularly like white men to tell us what their salaries are because that’s what we’re, where we see the most, lack of, pay equity. So it’s like that’s who were we need to check in with. But I think my relationship with being able to negotiate has increased over time. I will say, I have a good friend, my work mom. We no longer work together, but we work together for a very long time. And she was the executive assistant to many people in the C-suite. So that’s one of the most informed, like, minds you can have. On your side. And she gave me the best negotiating, tip, which was especially cause I’m a yapper. She said, you go in there, you share what you want, she says, and you don’t say anything else. But then silence that there. And I was like, okay. She says, you do not make a case for why you should have that salary. She said you wait for them to tell you why you shouldn’t. Yeah. And so that’s really interesting because she said, if you go in there with a real long spiel about why you deserve XYZ, you’re saying everything great about you, okay? If you just say, hey, you know, based on what I’m seeing in the market, based on my experience, here’s what I want. And you wait when they tell you, oh, I don’t know about that, you can ask them, why don’t you? They will tell you what it is that’s holding them back. And then you can attack that specific thing so you can do your whole spiel about how your great. But she didn’t hit the one thing that they’re thinking, which is, you know, I don’t know if you, we’re looking for someone also who has an MBA, etc., but if you stay quiet, let them say it first. You can address that one specific points. Or, you know, we’d like someone with an MBA absolutely understands. I spent my last role, you know, owning a plant up your flight plant is the acronym for Premium and Micro, which is an award show that just happened for, AP and SL. You know, I’ve, managed that. I’ve worked with finance on X, Y, and Z. I’ve grown business 20% year over year. So I understand you’re looking for someone with an MBA, but I think all the things they would bring from their MBA, I’ve already proven in my last role. So, you know, I, I still think X, Y, and Z should be how much I’m making, but that was really powerful. I did that in one of my last negotiations to stay quiet, and just waited for them to give me the information. I was lucky that the other person on the negotiating table was a very transparent person who was, you know, committed to being fair in all their offers. And it was, I think, at a time where it was an employee’s market. So it worked out well for me. But that’s the number one thing that I’ve learned. You really have to say. Last year, to have kind of all your information going with confidence, know what your bottom like number kind of is or what else you might want, and then also fill up the situation, you know, see how the person is reacting, etc.. Now. So that’s the one thing of having like good information. The second thing, which you can’t really do anything about, is that we’ve seen studies that say that when women ask for more money, sometimes they judge more harshly than if a man does. So virtually, there’s nothing you can do about that. But I think sometimes we worry that we will be judged on for asking, but the reality should probably not be judged regardless, so you might as well just ask for more, money anyway. But I think ask like your what? Your white male friends, what they’re making if you don’t know.

Andrea Diaz: But thank you for that advice. I was kind of curious to like, how do you go? Because you’ve been in those spaces. Had you gotten that type of advice, too? And, you know, talk about you being in those spaces you spent over a decade of rooms with high level decision makers. And so how do you navigate perceptions about Latinas in those spaces without losing yourself?

María del Pilar Casal: That’s a really that’s a fantastic question. So I have to caveat that a lot of my career being spent around in Latino media, in multicultural marketing, like in L’Oréal, even where it was a European, an American, company, I’ve been lucky that I’ve been in diverse spaces, where people are used to kind of, you know, different cultures. Obviously L’Oréal be more of a French culture. It’s different. But they were used to kind of balancing between you French, you know, and there are global companies, many of global companies who I think sometimes a little bit more flexibility because they’re used to interacting with different countries and different cultures. But when you’re in a room with Cision, because I’ve reached a point in my career where I do not want to be anywhere where I’m not wanted, I don’t want to sit at the table that does not want me. If the chair is not pulled out, I’m going to one of the table. I’m building my own table. Now. I say that with a lot of years of experience, which I’ve built confidence and like, I know what I do, I do it well. If that’s not for you, great. I’ll find another opportunity. I think when you haven’t reached that point yet and that confidence isn’t there, it is much more exhausting to try to be something that you’re not, then to just show up as yourself and people get used to it, or you realize it’s not the space for you. Yeah, I do want to also say, though, that I think we lean heavily into showing up as your full self, but I think you need to do that within whatever feels right for your own boundaries. Not every space is a safe space to show your full self. And also many times there may be parts of yourself that you just don’t think someone’s even worthy of being a part of. So I think it’s kind of like that balance show up is who you are, who you feel most comfortable. But at the same time, if there’s other aspects that are your true self, but you want to see for other areas of your life, I think that’s absolutely fine. And then listen, you learn the culture of a place also as you go and how people interact, with each other. And then I think you can either decide I want to, you know, adapt in some ways and not adapt, in others. One of the things that I’ve learned, for example, as you can tell, I’m a talker. Yeah. And I can go off on a ramble. I’ve had bosses who are phenomenal bosses. They cannot handle that level of talk. How the really fast the Latino with the big hand. They are wonderful. But I can see that, you know, in their style and their personality. It can be a lot. Yeah. So I’m like, okay, I need to go shorter. It’s slower. Yeah. With this person. They love me. They love everything I’m about. They love when I put on the show, when I’m presenting. But they cannot process information and that’s sometimes cultural, sometimes that’s neurodivergent, and sometimes that’s just personal what someone’s used to. Sometimes it’s the time of the day. You have to also kind of know how you communicate, like if it’s later in the day, most people can’t receive information of any kind. So that’s also another part of it, which I think is you show up as who you are, but also you want the person on the other side to, do an action to do something for you. You have to then taper how you communicate, not because there’s anything wrong with how you do it, but just because if you want someone to do something for you, you need them to understand what you’re saying. And so then you have to adjust, know.

Andrea Diaz: And I like that too is like is like taking the iteration also the like and adjusting to personalities of other people. I feel like sometimes we, we’re like, oh yeah, me. And then we don’t realize, hey, like, this person might not be able to take all of me, so I have to adjust a little bit. And, yeah, no is being considered yet like a as you mentioned, it could be, you know, it could be they’re just not used to processing information that quickly. They’re not used to interacting with people would bring that much energy constantly. So it could just be an adjustment for them too. So it’s like kind of meeting the middle ground. So yeah. Yeah.

María del Pilar Casal: I mean at least I know I think it’s like there’s so much it’s cultural. But I, you know, I had a Latina coworker and it was just like it was sensory overload for her. Sometimes my big personality and she loved me, I loved her. It was just like I realized, oh, no, no, this is like just a lot for her brain to take in. Like, for me, we worked right. Fast, fast, fast. Yes, yes, yes. I’m going for her. I was like, no, I need a breath in there. So, I think yeah, that’s also a part of it. And I think respecting other people, you want people to accept and understand you. And I think, like with this coworker, part of her showing up as her true self was being able to say, hey, I need slower, I need a quieter room, I need a quiet corner. That was hurting yourself at work. So you also kind of learn to. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: And you know, you mentioned in the beginning like how you engage in you can bring yourself into hustle culture. So I’m curious, like how did you protect you know, you know, we’re hustlers like us Latinas. We’re hustlers. So how do you protect your energy while still delivering but not getting burnt out?

María del Pilar Casal: That’s a really good question. I don’t know that I’ve ever been able I don’t know that I’ve ever achieved that. If I’m really honest. I would say I’ve been working for 15 years. Yeah. The first ten I for sure did not. I was I mean, I burned myself into the ground. I think you also have to kind of know where you are in a situation. Yeah. So I will say I’m not saying I condone hustle culture or burning Instagram, but sometimes there are moments where you can secure promotion or a big pay raise, or get a really big client if you’re gonna get a ton of money from, yeah, and it might be a really rough two months. There are other points, like for me now, I have to also accept that I’ve achieved like the accolades and the career, burning myself to the ground now is not going to get me anything else. There’s no ROI on that. Yeah. So even if you’re like me, where you’re tough on yourself and you want to constantly push, I have to almost treat it like a business decision, which is like, hey, it’s not that you’re being lazy or not working as hard as that. There’s literally no ROI on you putting in more hours. Yeah, because for me, sometimes the am I missing out on life? Should I be sleeping more? That doesn’t really motivate me to slow down. What’s motivating me lately is just like, hey, you’re not getting the return on this. You didn’t make more money because of this. You didn’t get another client because of this, you’re in the same place, but you’re more tired, which that math does not. Make sense. What I’d love for other people to learn early on is that, it’s a long term. It’s not good to burn yourself out. It’s very hard to undo burnout a few weekends. Sleeping in does not undo years, of exhaustion. It can take a toll on your mental health and all of that. I think I was very into it at the time. I was younger and early in my career with little responsibilities. So I was just like, let’s do it now. But I’m still learning, so I don’t. I honestly don’t even have an answer for you, except that I’m still kind of learning it. I will say therapy is really good to have. Yeah, my weekly therapy session is a good reminder. Like it’s an hour for myself. It’s a good reminder, though, that things are not that serious, that nothing you do at work like unless you are an ER doctor. Yeah, well, you know, a lawyer like a public defender, nothing you do is going to be so critical and nothing to do in your career is undoable. You can make a ton of mistakes somewhere, like, oh my God, if I don’t use the client’s email, they’ll think I’m stupid. I won’t be doing a good job. You’ll be at a new job in two years. No one will remember that email. So yes, you remember your career is also long. Yeah. And your and your professional reputation is what you make it right and you present who you are. So also, I think we burn ourselves out because we’re so worried about making sure everyone has a really great, perception of us making sure we’re delivering for every single person. It’s like, you’re going to be thousands of people in your life. You can disappoint some people. It’ll be fine. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: No. And I love that answer to busy. Yeah. It’s like we sometimes we care so much about perception and it actually sometimes ends up hurting us a bit more. It is good to care about perception, but at the same time, not too extreme where we’re we’re so worried about it that it’s actually affecting our mental health as well.

María del Pilar Casal: Well, let me tell you, I have a phrase and I’m like, this is probably the worst advice to give, but I no longer tolerate people who are unkind. And I saw this phrase, and I love it because, you know, it’s how you don’t ever burn a bridge. I think that’s such an excuse for people to treat other people badly, because you’re so worried that you treat everyone. So I’m like, oops, may the bridges I burn like the way I will burn a bridge like that. If you are an unkind person, if you just say, I give everyone. Yeah, I’m like, hey, I didn’t like that. Let’s talk about through. But people who treat people badly, I’ll burn that bridge. Because you know what? I never will ask you for a recommendation. I will never ask you for a job, any place you’re working. I don’t want to work any place. And people you’re hanging out with. I probably want to be there because you’re an unkind person. So I really have learned that’s also okay to burn a bridge here. There is terrible advice to give. I think people are like, don’t say that, but I’m sorry. For me, it’s true.

Andrea Diaz: No, I respect that because that’s kind of been me too is like, hey, we burn bridges. We burn bridges because it’s like it is also like, you know, test of your character. I’m not going to surround myself with people who are, you know, being nasty to me or like, not respecting other people. You know, it is just it comes to a point where, like, I don’t want to surround myself or build my career around a person who’s being like that. So it really hundred percent. Yeah.

María del Pilar Casal: I’ve asked people, I’m like, would you ever go work anywhere that they’re working? No. Would you ever hit them off a recommendation? Absolutely not. Why are you worried then? Yeah. Yeah, they’ll be fine. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: I think it’s that perception thing especially, you know, in the corporate world too, you know, perception and reputations, everything. So people are like too scared to burn bridges. But sometimes, hey, I feel like the people who get the most amount of respect are the people who actually burn the bridge and are like, no, I don’t respect that person.

María del Pilar Casal: And and I do it kindly. I just kind of slowly ease my way out. Yeah, but I’m not worried. It’s like, oh, you know, to maintain a great relationship with every single person. And I’m in the business of, relationships. So I was like, I have wonderful relationships. But I think, yeah, you just have to a certain point. I just think for a long time in corporate that was used as an excuse to treat people, poorly. And a lot has changed, too. I think post-Covid we understand how you should be treating people, how we speak to each other. So I think in general, there’s also just a lot greater like, behavior and people that in general, are working. But I think earlier in my career I could have maybe burns a bridge between. I’ve been so worried probably would have kept my mental health. Yeah, yeah.

Andrea Diaz: And also I’m interested too. I saw in your background that you’ve done a lot of influencer marketing. How’s that been? Especially since the volt quite vastly in this past decade.

María del Pilar Casal: Yes. So I would say I was like even pre influencer term, working in the space because I started out in public relations. But immediately kind of like in PR that was done on social. So I worked a lot with what they used to call it mommy bloggers. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. And like, you know, people who had like a blogspot. So I was working with the bloggers and mommy mommy bloggers. It was like a particular subset to of bloggers, who would showcase so life as moms and lifestyle. And, that was a group of women who had a lot of sway. They were on every PR list. They got invited to every single event. They were always sent product because they could really, like, make something, sell. And so I learned early on the power of someone who was not your traditional celebrity, but who had a lot of influence on the online world. And at that time was because people would literally log on to a website and read very long, like blog posts and want to know everything about their life and all the pictures. When I started working, Facebook and Twitter had blown up and Facebook had just gone public. I think when I was in college, because before you had to have a, you know, an edu email because it was only for colleges. So I think my second year of college went public to everyone. So by the time I graduated, it was an active place where brands were at. And I had I was blogging myself at the time. So I saw YouTubers and blogger, the blogspot bloggers, and the mommy bloggers moving into the social, space as well. So I think very early on I understood that there was power there. And it was kind of like your very popular friend, right? Who you of course want everything so so you could already start to see at that time that celebrities had a lot of influence and magazines had a lot of influence, but that people were also like, oh, my really cool friend likes to thing. And so they were starting to pay attention to that. And then of course, those really cool friends, those bloggers became like celebrities. Themselves. But yeah, I was early on the Twitter by people. Forget about vine. Yeah. But if you if you look at there’s a whole subset including, like Jake Paul and Logan Paul, I forget the brothers, Jake, Paul, Logan Paul, they started out on vine. Yeah. So people are like very aware young, like Gen Z and Gen office like very aware of them. And when they started out on vine, the Rudy Mancuso was like a, an Amazon movie. Yeah. So he started out on vine, you know, some people who, Lily pond started on, on vine. So all these people started out on vine, and then vine shut down. But vine created that class of people who were influencers, but also content creators, because when vine started, it was six seconds. And for you to make something really good in a six second looping video, you had to be quite creative. So that started to separate. That’s like the inspiration of like, oh, this person isn’t just cool, cool outfits, funny jokes, person to actually create content. So when they use it over to Instagram, and you got these short form content creators, the skits and all that stuff. I think that’s when you have like, your next class, of creators. And obviously now it’s continue to evolve, but I’ve sort of been there all along, the way as each platform came and watched the evolution. So now I’m working with influencers. It’s fine because you see it all repeat. Yeah. Now I have, impersonal work that I’m doing. And kind of what I’m personally passionate about is looking at micro and nano creators. And it’s funny because it all continues to be the same thing, right? Celebrities got so big. People were like, no, but kind of who’s more authentic was more real. Oh, this blogger, right, is like bloggers that became influencers. Now the influencers have gotten so, so big, y’all know. But who’s still real authentic. But now they’re going to the smaller creators, right? The people who are more again, the cool friend. Yeah. So it’s interesting because it all just like everything follows the same cycle. Like, you know, there’s always a new class, of group coming up, but I think, yeah, it’s just been a really interesting career. And it all goes back to just like the connection with the audience and how engaged, your audience was with you. I think authentic authenticity is like one of the most overused words now. Yeah. In this, influencer marketing industry, I think it’s just about who are people connecting with and understanding that that can be a big creator, that can be a small creator, that can be more of a community space, like on Reddit, where those people, you don’t even know them, but their opinions are swaying you. Yeah, that can take many different forms.

Andrea Diaz: And I love the way. Brilliant. And also, I miss line guys. I miss fine. It was such a great platform. I’m like, you know what?

María del Pilar Casal: I give vine credit for creating, content for creating like the label of content creators and that class of, creators, because I was like, that didn’t really, I mean, YouTube, but in that short form on other platforms, we didn’t exist until vine.

Andrea Diaz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like people don’t realize, yeah, short form content. Those short like even TikTok. So file is short form content. But I was like the exact like, yeah, you only have six seconds to create something and it like it showed like the really get creative creators.

María del Pilar Casal: And we were still seeing the like there’s still ones who are famous in vine that are super famous on TikTok. That continued on. There’s some that kind of fell behind or changed director nectarines to and became like models or depending where they should be, because they built that reputation and they’re like, I’ve always transition to another thing.

Andrea Diaz: Absolutely. But yeah. No. And I love hearing your voice. That’s such a vast experience, just hearing like, your background, too, and also like what you’ve learned and the fact that you were there for the whole whole transition to, like.

María del Pilar Casal: I’ve watched this whole thing. I’m like, we’re going to. And then now that Substack is getting, so big, I’m like, oh my God, we’re back to bloggers. I was like, see? Like it’s all just it’s like, now we’re back to bloggers. Yeah, I. Saw the first wave of them. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: No, I hopped on Substack as soon as I saw like It launch, because I was like, yeah, this is what people are looking for. We’re starting out. We’re yearning. We’re yearning for the blogs.

María del Pilar Casal: 100%. It’s like everyone wants smaller and more private, too. I think in Instagram the platforms are phenomenal, but they’ve become so public. People want a mix of both. It’s like you’re on Instagram and they can see the things you’ve liked and what you’ve posted, and there’s like millions of people. It’s like, I ain’t a little quiet space. And we see even on big platforms, that people spend more time sending content to each other than they do even posting. So I think there’s also like that return to a little bit more privacy or, you know, it’s safe, and privacy and intimacy a closer connection. So like the micro creators, the smaller spaces, the niche communities on Reddit, like all of that’s kind of picking back up. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: No, I love that. And, you know, let’s talk about you’re raising your son. Well, you know, building a business. So how’s this chapter different from, you know, your 20s or early 30s? And what do you know now that you didn’t then?

María del Pilar Casal: So this has been is very recent. For me, my goal, or at least what I think I look for right now is still to ultimately move into a corporate role. But I like having the flexibility and the runway and time to get to the right role. And so I realize in order to do that, I needed to be consulting and freelancing, to keep kind of income coming and also to keep myself sharp and involved in the industry. And it was not something I do because I really don’t like entrepreneurial like or not, I don’t like I’m not a natural entrepreneur. Yeah. I’m like, no, please give me a time. She please give me a clock to clock in to give me a boss. Give me like and I it’s funny because, my health insurance is so my husband. So people will tell me all the time, you don’t even. You don’t need the health care from a company. You can literally build your own thing. I’m like, I really I’m like, well, who’s going to match my retirement? No, I need like a structure. Yeah. But so in the interim I’m like, okay, well you need to start taking on some clients. I was like, well, how do you even go about that? And so someone told me, listen, you’re just going to start getting referred to people. And it was true people. So reaching out, hey, do you know someone can do X, Y, and Z? Actually, I’m not working. I’m a prior role anymore. I can do it. Oh, amazing. You know, or. Hey, can I give your name? So and so and so. It’s like I just started kind of picking up clients that way. It’s interesting. It’s different because you don’t have a huge name behind your huge company, right? You have your resume that stands tall in it’s own, but like, I need to follow up with my clients and like paying for their services, right? I need to determine my rates. I need to go out and see. Should calculate that based on what I’m seeing. Whereas I’m used to, you know, a salary, if I work more, I can make more. So it’s like a very different way of doing things. I will say also, that’s really built up, I think my professional confidence. Yeah. Because to be in rooms, be invited to speak on panels and events. Yes. Because of the places you’re working experience. But to be invited when you’re on your own, not with the company behind you, has it’s been very it’s really helped build my confidence. I’m like, oh, I’m here because they’re interested in me. Like, you know what I what I’m saying, which might have been the case before, but I think it’s different when you don’t have that company, behind you. And so, you know, pitch a client and work on their business, and it’s just you and they like it, and they’re like, yeah, this is great. That for me has also been, I think really confidence like building up my confidence. It’s also, by the way, different because now I do everything myself. Whereas before I had quite a large team. Yeah. So now it’s like, oh I do the big level strategy and the small details. But the one thing I told my clients, I’m like, listen, you’re gonna have to hire a designer because I’m not going to design in PowerPoint. I had someone very good on my team before for that, and I cannot afford to hire them for my business. So you’re going to get an ugly deck and someone at your side can fix it, and they’re like, okay. No, I love that.

Andrea Diaz: And, you know, like we’ve heard your story. And I wanted to ask, is there anything else that we haven’t touched upon that you want to talk about?

María del Pilar Casal: I will, so I will say one thing I’ve also learned, and this is about corporate and kind of what’s your point before fitting in? Yeah, I was never good at I think the kind of, I don’t know, was like politicking or schmoozing. Yeah. In corporate spaces, I was always just kind of a little bit quieter and really hard working. And I see a lot, on social media, people sort of know, like, you need to do X, Y, and Z, you need to work. You know, it’s not about working, it’s about who sees your work. And all of these things are true. But I will tell you that I’ve also what I think is a very successful career, being absolutely myself. Yeah. And being a little bit quieter and just working really hard. I’ve been lucky that I’ve had, I think, managers who cared about work and less about whether, you know, I was like talking them off or chatting them up. But I think sometimes we’re pushed to be very different or to operate in different ways. And while you should be networking, making connections and showing off your work, it’s okay to also be acquired a person, in the room and you just work hard and deliver really good work. I think there’s still space for that. In this industry. And as I mentioned before, it’s a lot easier to just show up as who you are versus trying to be something else. So yeah, I think I’m just going to do good work, be kind. And, you know, every so often tell somebody, you know, show, you know, join a meeting, do a presentation, show them what I’m working on. You know, I like to do a podcast, speak on panels, but I do think that it’s okay, whether it’s because you’re an introvert or because you’re shy or whatever it may be to just kind of build your career the way it feels. Good, for you, because ultimately your career only has to serve you, right, has to pay your bills. Unless you’re lucky enough to someone else paying them. God bless. Yeah, but it has to pay your bills. And then after that, actually, it pays your bills. It just has to make you happy. Yeah. So you really decide what your career can be, and there’s a lot of this thing, I think on social of, like. People showing off their careers and like, what’s a cool career and like, oh, but I’m not a business. Let me tell you something. I don’t know if anyone’s in. Check me out. The staples body. Yes. Okay.

Andrea Diaz: I was going to ask about that too.

María del Pilar Casal: They are working at staples. They’re the most popular person on the internet right now. Yeah. So you your is whatever you want it to be. You know, it doesn’t matter. Best to be an influencer, but what I’m things like however you want to show up, however you want to talk about your career, you are that career person. You are that career Latina. You’re that badass. You are whatever you want to, be. And you can be working a job that you’re like, oh, you know, I wish I had this. Does that job pay your bills and make you happy? Own it. You’re the best at what you do. Because I see a lot, I think comparison on social and stuff, I’m like, listen, allows people’s working in tech are miserable, okay? They’re exhausted, they’re miserable. So also don’t like compare too much career wise with what you’re saying. But no, I love the staples Maddie. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: No, it’s it’s been amazing. Like I saw her first post when she started trending and I was like, this is great because she’s helping people also showcase like, services that people were really well aware of. And she’s also doing it being herself. And I was like, yes, I’m like. They were saying about stickers. Yeah.

María del Pilar Casal: I was like, I should get an image of a cat. Yeah. I thought I should get stickers of my cat. Yeah, I’m legit trying to find a good picture. I’m going to staples and be like staples. Baddest that I could make because my cat. Give me the computer. Yeah, yeah. No, I saw her do it. Also like, I think it was like terrible printing on like a mug. And I was like, oh my God, I didn’t know they did that. Like, I’m gonna go get them. Mouse, this is the best promotion besides your back to school promotions and I think are always, good. They have good deals. Best promotion they’ve ever had. Yeah, like, give them a deal. Give them a contract. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: And I love that they’re leaning in me sometimes in the like. Somebody becomes that popular for like a, you know, like corporate brand. Like sometimes corporate won’t know how to deal with it. But they’ve done a phenomenal job. Like, I think they sent her like a, like I said, most recently sent her like a gift box of like from staples, like.

María del Pilar Casal: Oh, I. Hadn’t seen that one. That’s awesome. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: So it’s like, it’s nice that they’re leaning into it.

María del Pilar Casal: I see them in the comments too, and they’re leaning into it. I’m like, yeah, this is this is the type of creators you want representing your brand. They’re helping you reach a new audience. And so organic. Yeah. We’re there’s no amount of money that could buy you an influencer who could create as organic content as what staples body is doing. Yeah, these are actually passionate about their job. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I’m like money could not this is the only thing that can happen because it’s genuinely honest. That’s what they love. And many other like what other influencer loves staples this. Yeah. Or is this good at working at staples. Nobody. Yeah. So that’s a gold mine. Yeah. They’re phenomenal. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: And why don’t you go back to your whole story and like you know you know, you explain most of your story. So what do you hope the next generation Latinas learn from this from from hearing your story.

María del Pilar Casal: When and I’ve already seen this with Gen Z. Yeah. But I think there’s no need to try to get us to get at a table that doesn’t want you. Yeah, I really like this. I may be wrong, but I’m just seeing so much happening that we’re building for ourselves. It’s like, let’s lean into that. Yeah, let’s lean into it. And I think it’s only going to get better. I know we’re like in tough times now. Yeah. But I think it’s only going to get better with time. I think the future is bright and we have to remain hopeful. But I think the more we stick together and the more we’re just like, cool, that that share is not pulled out for me. No worries. There’s a very large table over there where the Latinos are welcoming me in with open arms. Like, I’ll just go into that, space and then, you know what? At that table will, steal share of profit. We’ll say we’ll take your clients, we’ll take your business, we’ll do it all. But I think, yeah, don’t worry about being in rooms and tables where folks don’t want you do your own thing, find another space. Yeah.

Andrea Diaz: No, I love that message. And for our final question, when did our founder, Anjelica Cazares, loves asking is, do you consider yourself a leader? Why or why not?

María del Pilar Casal: Okay, so yes, I do consider myself, a leader. I think a leader is a person who I mean, leader. Yeah, but I think the point of leading is that you make a path for other folks. Sometimes that path is following you, sometimes that path is you getting out of the way and shining the light so they can look forward and find their own, way. But I, I do consider myself, a leader because I think that’s where I most thrive is in bringing people into the space time and and empowering them, I think, to be their best selves. And I encourage other people it is wildly fulfilling. Yeah, to help someone else reach their potential. Wildly fulfilling. I think a lot of times we get caught up in our own story and what is safe for me, and I can say that and again, because they tell you not to be this way. Yeah, they tell you like, no, you got to think about yourself. I’ll give you a quick example. I applied for this grants and I was like, this is very cool. I started sending it to everyone I could. Someone told me, yeah, but, you know, you just adding to the competition. You sent this like 20 people already. I was like, so who cares if this for me is for me? But this is great. Yeah. If I’m not good enough to get it, I know that 20 other people who are amazing, everyone should try. I got that grant and I told that person, see, you have to just be yourself and do things that feel right to you. Yeah. And I think being in community and sharing and bringing folks in feels right to me. And I tell people it is really the most fulfilling. You will feel great when you see people succeeding. Yeah. When you open a door or helps like that feels amazing. Yeah. I was like, that’s the best feeling. It feels better than when I win. It feels like I’m winning, know it. And I love that.

Andrea Diaz: And yeah, no, I feel like Standing community too is just going to help us and just being ourselves is going to. And I love that as just you have a being ourselves. Because I feel like sometimes, especially in those spaces, we feel like we can’t be ourselves. But no, we can be ourselves and we we can’t be ourselves. Then maybe we’re not fit for at least for the space. And we need to find another community somewhere that will be 100%.

María del Pilar Casal: 100%. And listen, you know, I think also, if you exist in any space of privilege, you have to also then show up so that it makes it easier for other folks who may not be experiencing some of the same privileges as you can show up. Yeah. As incels. Right? As a cis woman, you know, as a Latina who’s showing up in spaces looking the way that I do, there’s certain privileges that I have. So I need to show up as myself, and I need to make it very well known that other people can, because it is easier for me to do. Yeah. So if you’re in a space where you do have some type of privilege, it’s like, I can’t emphasize enough, be yourself and make it okay, because there are some people for whom there are so few rooms where they can safely be themselves. So you have to also kind of use the fact that you have the privilege, I think, to open it up a little bit more. But yes, they don’t want you to just move it because, yeah, life is life is short where you’re wanted. Yeah. And they thank go. Oh, we are celebrated. Yeah. No.

Andrea Diaz: And thank you, Pilar, for having this conversation with me. I know our listeners will greatly appreciate it. Like we covered so many things. So I know y’all will if you. Have great questions. Yeah, I know you have. These are these are for me things I know our listeners are wondering about and things I’m also wondering about. So thank you for having this conversation with me. And where can where can I listed as find you?

María del Pilar Casal: You can find me on LinkedIn. I’m all over social, but I’m more private. Since this is I’m very active on LinkedIn and very public. And I always whenever like we have these conversations. If you are about to negotiate, an offer, whether I’m in your industry or not, feel free. DM send me a message. Let’s find you somebody who has more intel. Let’s do the research together. I’m happy to practice with you. What you’re going to say when you negotiate. But please, please negotiate every, offer you get. It’s so important that we get as, close to pay equity as, possible, but that also that you make as much money as possible for the work that you’re doing. So I’m on LinkedIn. I’m always happy to answer any questions. But especially if you want to negotiate an offering, you’re like, I don’t even know who to ask. Hit me up. We will find someone together. To help. You know, I love that.

Andrea Diaz: So thank you so much, Pilar. And thank you, amigas who are listening to this episode today. Pilar reminded us that the path to leadership isn’t always linear. She spent 15 years climbing the corporate ladder only through realized next tech wasn’t more of the same. It was something entirely her own. She also reminded us that our cultural fluency is not something to hide. It’s leverage in that negotiation for yourself, especially when you’re underpaid and overlooked, is a skill you can learn. Pilar is now building her own business while raising her son. You can follow her journey and connect with her through socials, especially LinkedIn. And thank you for listening. If this episode resonate with you, share with other amiga who’s trying to figure out her next book. I’m Andrea Diaz and this is the Latina Leadership podcast. Nos vemos.